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 Learning How To Ski and Race General Discussion looking for ski... | |
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looking for ski buying advice
Posted: 29 Sep 10 9:26 PM |
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Hi Robert,
I remember you once told me that as far as skiing
goes, boots are perhaps more important than skis, and that it isn't
critical to buy skis new. I want to get out more this
winter and I happened across a top-rated shop and boot fitter in my
travels last week. To make a longer story short, I've now got a
pair of new (last season) Nordica Hot Rod 85 boots, at a much more reasonable price than I thought possible. They are comfortable, balanced with more performance and better fit than rental boots.
Which brings me to looking for skis, potentially used, where I could
use some of your expert advice. I believe I'm solidly intermediate
skill level, doing blue and black diamond slopes historically, but I
want to improve my technique and advance to more difficult terrain, so I was thinking of aiming toward an
intermediate/advanced ski so I'd have a bit of room to grow into them.
There is a lot of information on skis out there, but I'm not sure it's
all reliable: Where does the reviewer or writer ski, what's their true
ability level, do they have much experience with other skis to draw
from, etc. Many reviews are from ski shops, so of course they find everything they sell to be the best thing ever. Since you're very familiar with prevailing local conditions
here in PA/WV/MD and infinitely more experienced., I'd like to know what you would
recommend I look for in my hunt for skis, everything from length, side-cut,
construction, bindings, etc. I'm 5'6" and 140lbs.
Appreciate any insight you have in advance!
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Re: looking for ski buying advice
Posted: 19 Oct 10 9:31 PM |
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Great to hear from you and about your gear!
Probably a good boot for you to tear, while working your skiing towards something less comfy!
There are so many makes and models, and they can vary not only among them, but also within the model from year to year. To match the boot and, from what I see, where skiing places in your lifestyle, you may want to look for an all mountain type. It will let you explore all the mountain and on varying terrain and snow conditions, from ice to powder and crud. None of those the ski will do best-in-class but provide the versatility, and fun, which is the vehicle for you to get to the next level.
Trouble is that people stick with what they like, so reasonably used, likable, gear is hard to come by.
Skiing industry is as much about fashion as the utility, or usability, so their stories are not always believable. Ski owners have their own limited perspective, or experience, so their opinion may not be best for you to rely on either. Best if you can swap gear with friends (get to know how to set and adjust your bindings first), test skis on demo days, or other events, where you can get a better idea of what’s out there.
It'd be great if you were able to find a pair you like right on, although some good skis require a good deal of breaking in. To keep it simple, aim for those you like and don’t waste much time on those that you hesitate about; live is too short, and you can always "work" your next set the hard way. It will pay off, I guarantee you, but don't overburden yourself with challenges during your "fist date".
Considering that you'll be skiing mostly East, go for a narrower waist (way below today's industry recommendation but also easier to find in the second-hand market), maybe 68-70 mm, and for shorter, around 14 m, or best if variable 10-16 radius with lengths slightly above 165 cm but not longer than 170 cm. Anything outside of the above envelope will give you better of something at the cost of something else in the “shaped” world of conventional wisdom.
There are some cool new designs, like reverse camber type and fatter skis coming to the market, but I suggest you first get a good "conventional” type before venturing out.
Good places to get good used gear from are:
- Ski Swap – a Mon Valley Ski Club event held at 7Springs in November (www.monvalleyskiclub.org)
- PSIA Pros – inquire about local PSIA educational staff with www.psia.org or ski schools. Watch what gear they are skiing on and do the same. Sometimes, you can buy used gear off those folks.
As far as bindings, nowadays, a lot of them come in as “system”, i.e. skis and bindings have been designed and put together by the makers. I have some personal opinions in this space, but they are for the most part tertiary in the boot-ski-binding equation, so I am not gonna venture there.
I recommend against buying used skis without bindings. It just adds another layer of hassle and cost to the process.
As far as DIN you should look for a 4-10 range (for your stature and skiing ability), and there is no need for you to pay extra for any red/racing coils that go to 12-14 or higher.
The skis should be in good condition with no significant base damage near the edges, sufficient sidewall room for tuning, flat – no concave - base, and well profiled and reasonably strong camber.
Worn out skis are those of which the base contact point travels inward significantly when pressed together, although with today's "rocker" trend they may be in fashion :).
I hope the above is helpful, but let me know if you need any further assistance with your project. |
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Re: looking for ski buying advice
Posted: 19 Oct 10 11:32 PM |
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| · Believe it or not, my search is at at end, and for better or for worse, I've now got a pair of used Fischer RX8 skis. They're 115-66-98, and 165cm long. So just a little bit narrower waist than your recommended range, but I think they're a good design and build, and they should turn easily and still handle the limited amount of powder that I'm likely to see here in the mid-Atlantic / East. I figured a slightly tighter turning radius is OK, as this might be more fun on the shorter slopes here. Higher speed GS turns are appealing, too, but maybe more so on longer slopes than we have here, so I'm trying to be practical with this choice. · Bindings: Is it reasonable to try to learn to adjust the bindings and/or tune the skis myself? The past owner had a larger boot than I do, something around a size 10, whereas I’m a size 8 in boots. Does that mean the bindings have to be re-mounted to get my smaller boot properly centered length-wise on the ski, or is that insignificant, i.e. I can safely just adjust the back of the binding forward along it’s adjustment range without worrying that the whole boot is too far forward? As far as adjusting the bindings, I’ve read online that you have to set the DIN on the front and back of the binding, and there are charts for Marker bindings that take into account skier weight, height, ability, and conditions, and tell you what to set the DIN to. Is there anything more to it than that? Bases and edges: Wax seems like a good idea. How does one check the condition / need of wax? And the edges? Is there anything else I should look into / adjust on these before heading out, or anything else I should know about maintaining them?
Thanks for all of your insights!
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Re: looking for ski buying advice
Posted: 05 Dec 10 1:50 AM |
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Great to hear from you Snowman, and also glad you did not split hairs over the process. You are very analytical and systematic in your approach and that helps narrowing down the choices, but in the end there is this sensation that some skis have and some don't, and it is very personal. Chances are you will like the skis very much and with R13 you've nailed it right in the head towards your objective of improving carving skills in the East. Some skis one needs to grow into, but from what I read about the skis (http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/22772/fischer-rx8-after-further-review) they may be just right from the first ride out... just don't take them to the SuperG because you'll have Super trouble keeping the blue up.
On bindings fore and aft position: the idea is to keep the center of the boot over the center of the ski. On most good gear you will see arrows, which can identify those midpoints, but it is quite appropriate to deviate from the mid point forward for "shorter ski and radius" and back for "longer ski and radius" performance. As far as safety of adjusting the 10-8 boot by moving the toe piece forward, you're completely safe, just expect the ski to feel like 163 cm and 11 m.
DIN setting: yes, you need to get to know what your settings are. Please note the plural here, so check out the mentioned charts, discuss with shop pros, and pros on the slopes and listen to your own body, to find out what your own risk/release sweet spot is.
A good site to get you started is here: http://www.dinsetting.com/. Injuries, to start with, type and depth of snow, or your speed are not taken into account there, so work from the lower end of the spectrum and turn the setting up AND/OR down, as needed. Consider the chart recommendation a good "midpoint" but not necessarily, a starting one. Check the DIN setting BEFORE EACH RUN for your own safety.
In normal conditions all pieces should be set to the same DIN setting, but if you are recovering from an injury, and your left leg for example is not yet as strong as your right one, you may want to adjust the DIN settings accordingly. On the other hand, if you're facing a rutted and iced up race course you're setting yourself for a DNF using your charted DIN numbers.
Bases and waxing: this is an art and voodoo subject all by itself. Start easy- get the shop tune your skis once or twice a year on a good machine, and work your way up from there. And by working your way up I do not mean taking the skis to the shop more often. Unfortunately, you may find out that you will need to take the matters into your own hands.
The selection of waxes can range from FREE to VERY expensive, and they can range from hard to soft, liquid to powder, hot or cold, they can be appropriate for a base, a second layer, a topcoat, training and race; there are even cleaning waxes, but unless you need to gain an upper hand over the competition- a dry rug and a liquid wax application after each skiing day will keep your gear in excellent condition for years. Other schedules of waxing are also appropriate, just don't let rust ruin your edges by stowing away the skis all wet or moist.
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Re: looking for ski buying advice
Posted: 03 Feb 11 11:09 PM |
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Robert,
I would like to ask you for skiing buying advice also. I've been researching race skis these past few weeks and I think I have narrowed my search to three models: Atomic D2 Race GS, Völkl Racetiger GS, or Elan GSX WaveFlex Fusion R. You had mentioned I should think about a 170 ski. Since I currently ski on a 163 length ski and my height and weight are 5'4" and 129 lbs, should I consider a 169/170 ski or a 164/165 ski? I'm leaning towards the Atomics at this point:
| LENGTH |
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169 |
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| TIP WIDTH |
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113.5 |
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| WAIST WIDTH |
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70 |
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| TAIL WIDTH |
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97 |
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| RADIUS |
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17.2 |
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Thanks for your advice, Cathy
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| | Learning How To Ski and Race General Discussion looking for ski... | |
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